Ok guys. I put this in the flamezone for a reason cuz it might get heated.

But heres my thought to all those that say that IE should be removed from Windows.

How will you access the internet from a new installation? Apple and Linux includes a browser so why shouldnt Windows? So if Windows has to have IE removed then I feel that Apple should remove Netscape from computers and Linux should do the same. Fair is fair. And dont say well download it from another computer and burn it to disc or put it on floppy; the normal consumer that buys their computer from CompUSA, BestBuy, Wal-Mart, etc. wants the thing to run out of the box, they dont want to have to download this or that just to check email or browse the internet.

I have more to add to this but I have a brain freeze now so I will leave it at that.

And before anyone asks. I use both Firefox and Internet Explorer. Each has its pros and cons.

IE is such an intricate part of the windows OS now that theres no way it can me yanked from the operating system, without u totally fubaring your Windows Set up, i agree though ...if Linux and Apple can bundle a browser why cant MS ...the only people throwing a fit over this is the europeans...and my god all u gotta do is go online, download an alternate browser and use it ...is it that hard!?

i agree i dont like IE, but i dont think MS shouldn't be forced to remove it like BSOD said if u dont like IE just install a diffrent browser. and why are the europeans throwing a fit

because they have nothing else to bitch about.

My thoughts are this:

Microsoft should be allowed to have IE installed and configured as the default browser, but they should make it so that it is absolutely possible to remove every trace of the browser from the OS after you have finished installing it. Also, the Windows Update site should not require IE only ActiveX controls but rather it should be able to function on at least IE, Firefox, and Opera. The problem with leaving IE installed on a system is that in a large enterprise environment users will turn to what they know, and unfortunately if company policy is to use Firefox, if IE can't be removed from the system, they'll use IE even if it's against policy.

--Josh

Can you remove every trace of Netscape Navigator on a Apple? Or say Lindows, can you remove that browser completely? And everything function?



They own Windows Update... They own Internet Explorer... Its their software. They can make it require what they want.



I find that policy to be ludacris. Any company requiring that would be insane I believe. Let the people choose. Most are familiar with IE. Why force them to use something they dont know.

Let me see....you buy a computer/OS...and it comes with an Internet Browser - that you do NOT have to use, and may never even have to see, and may only once in a while think about.

Some programs you install may want THIS or THAT version IE installed.

Wow. BIG HASSLE. I've just never understood the problem. You want a different browser.... install it. Use it.

you choose to buy the computer with windows on it or you choose to install windows, you choose to have a computer in the first place, then you choose to abide by the Microsoft EULA. MS says, "you buy it, you use it, why you be complainin'? if you didn't wana use it then don't buy it."

ok so not word for word but it's implied. maybe.. should be understood at least. you buy a car, you drive it, you can't complain because the manufacturer decided to use a frame made out of a certain metal, you can't just replace the frame it's a part of the car, so get a different car. or paint the metal a different color and call it firefox.

stop complaining because you choose to use something you buy. if it's a corporately owned computer on your business's network, then they choose to install and use MSIE as default instead of installing firefox, or they are just lazy. in that case you're complaining to the wrong people. whoever you IS.

Who's to say I don't think you should be able to remove Netscape from Apple? In fact, I'd love it since I don't use it. Yes, they own Windows Update and IE, but not everyone who uses their OS wants to use their browser, that's one of the issues I have with Microsoft. I'm also all for choice, but belive me many companies standardize on one specific browser/OS/hardware manufacturer/etc etc etc. It makes supporting a large user base much easier when someone calls the tech support desk and says "my internet isn't working". Also, on the comment that a policy to standardize on Firefox would be ludacris, many government run organizations (county govt, state govt, city govt) have already taken this policy so maybe it's not so insane.

I've been a Sys Admin for about 5 years now and I'm currently the IT Manager at my company, I don't think a policy like that would be ludacris at all. While I don't currently enforce a Firefox only policy I strongly prefer my users to to choose Firefox over IE, and I make it very clear to them everytime they come crying that they have "all these weird search bars" all over their IE window.

i may not be an IT for a company, but i standardize people's PC's (friends) when i fix their computers and they never complain after i'm done. with IE that is

i mean if they threw firefox in there right beside IE ...then Netcape would complain, or myIE or someone..i mean come on use ur mind europe..we cant hand feed u it...it ur gonna complain that much about it ...simply use linux then

I will tell you what. It is the option for not beeing able to un-install IE that pisses me off. If the installation of windows asked you if wanted to install the following

+ IE
+ Mozilla
+ Netscape

That would be great. Or that Microsoft just included the option to uninstall IE. It is the lack of options when it comes to IE, that pisses me, a dedicated Mozilla user of.



MyIE, or Maxthon as I believe they are called now, is a kind of an add-on to IE, so I dont believe that they are entitled to complain. But if they included Mozilla and Netscape I dont believe that any could complain. If people are advanced enough to use anything else, I am sure they can just download it. But then again, why cant people just download Netscape or Mozilla... I will tell you why. They are major distributions of browsers, and need reconition from Microsoft.

Well, I do believe that the majority of "other-than-IE-users" would be happy if they just included that damn uninstall function for IE. Because the uninstall function just removes the shortcuts to IE. Doesnt even remove the registry keys, so it still runs IE, unless you tell the other browser to be the standard browser.

@And|, you can't even begin to imagine what would happen to your computer if you removed a crictal compontent like Internet Explorer.

Thats because you dont know about all the security holes IE has. It has as many holes as a swiss cheese. Because they have had the mojority of the internet in its hollow hands for so long, they havent really inproved the browser. They have just updated major bugs and holes.



Internet Explorer is NOT a part of Windows. It is a Microsoft products. And would you be comfortable with having to have a product installed on your system, that you really hate?

I am not a Microsoft hater, I actually love Windows, and I believe it is the best operating system around because it combines ease of use with exellent driver support, and after time good stability. But, I do not like Internet Explorer, because it has many security holes, and it lacks something. It lacks soul and heart. Perhaps there is just a little rebel in me, that just needs to bitch about something. I am just very confident that my hatred towards IE is based on something solid, not just plain "rebelism".
I also dislike Windows Media Player. It is slow at starting up, slow at starting to play files, lacks options, and eats to much resources for doing less than ie. WinAmp or ZoomPlayer.

Please read everything that I write, before confronting me with half of what I said.

Please.

EDIT: I specificly said that I would be, and I am sure many people would be, and stop bitching if they included an uninstall function that actually removes the program instead of just removing the shortcuts.

Ah yes my apolagies, but what proof do you have the IE isn't a apart of windows ?

well lets hope that they have learned something from FF and make IE7 good and hope that longhorn doesn't ship with IE bundled. However untill people like IE enough (to pay for it) they wont pull it out of the OS. But they sould make an uninstaller for it.

Hehe, that is quite alright matey. We all have something we react to. Mine must be when people only hears half the conversation, and get a false and only half sentence.

My proof is:
1. That you can still for some reason download the whole package from IE's website on microsoft.com.
2. It does not have the word "Windows" in the name.

Got a link for this ? And I might start to believe your claim.

If you are going by that assumption then "Windows" Media Player should have never been removed.

Take a peek here.



Possibly not. But I guess more people where anoyed by that because more people use alternatives to Media Player, than people use alternatives to IE.



-fixed the coding-
~Singh400

There are reports that windows media player will not ship with longhorn although not confirmed 100%

I was afraid you was going to post that link, I think you'll find that, that is not the full package of IE, but more of an update for IE. How do I know this because I've tried it lol. The actual download size for that file is 480KB, it only anazlye what version of IE you already have installed and which pacthes and then it updates IE to the most current version.

It by no means is a full blown Internet Explorer installation.

Uhm, then it should say so. And not directly say in words what very easily can be misunderstood, that is is a full package.

I can see how you got confused by this:

"This version includes a full installation of the Web browser and the most recent version of Outlook Express, the e-mail client that is included with Internet Explorer."

I thought this was the full blown thing, but when you download the exe and run it, it only installs available updates. They should reword that.

Ok so whos next ? I feel like ripping more possible theories apart lol.

You can rip my self-aclaimed proud feeling that I hate IE. Tell me why I should uninstall Mozilla and just use IE. I like stuff simple, and I sincerly want to like IE.

IE7 I am looking forward to swiching back to IE then but not until then, I went to FF becuase i was hoping the MS would see how much IE sucked and now IE7 i hope it will be good.

You can rip my self-aclaimed proud feeling that I hate Firefox. Tell me why I should uninstall Internet Explorer and just use Firefox. I like stuff simple.

Not taking the piss or anything, but its the easiest way to show you that i understand where your are comming from.

I wasn't gonna read all that just to find out if you've been told about
NLITE

http://nuhi.msfn.org/

yeh it can remove IE and other component from windows xp 2k3 etc

its great, my windows cd is 118MB with all the new post sp2 updates built in

Does anyone know what or if there is any way to get windows updates over firefox. just wondering if anyone has found a way? becuase that is the only reason I have IE. even tho i wouldn't remove it fully

microsoft has a lot on their plate. i see them as that companyy in i, robot.

it's rough for a company of their size with that much demand to be that perfect, when an organization like mozilla focuses on one thing. Microsoft turns its face to MSIE and Longhorn, so NOW what will be neglected?

that's what we're here for -- to complain.

Cool. Might make my own Windows install cd

sounds good. nLite is downlaoded and i'm definitely going to make my own how i want it. good stuff

Just one downside to the program. It does not support danish version of Windows.

That is kinda a downer.

Made a post at the official forum.
http://www.msfn.org/board/index.php?showtopic=41333

If anyone had some info they might want to share.

This is getting way off topic, back on topic please.

Shouldn't the author of the post be the one complaining if it gets off topic? After all, it is their idea that is affected. And besides, isn't this the flame zone, where supposedly anything goes? This is definitely the most heavily modded forum I'm a member of. It feels like there are secret service agents all around, watching your every move.

its our job to keep the topic on the right path - Just because its the flame zone doesnt mean its goes totally free and exempt frm the rules. this isnt the most modded section each section is equally moderated.

Flexbeta is very “Blunt” (Or in other words, Mellow).
We Are Very Tolerant when it comes to the content of the forums. We have basic rules that all of our member’s must follow. Axel, it’s only on a seldom occasion that our member’s break those rules or disregard them. Our job is to keep an eye on you guys, and make sure you have a pleasing and rewarding experience while active….
Some boards have rude Staff members, or several ludicrous rules… You have already been told that the Flamezone has a main purpose and that it will be moded if necessary.

It’s Up to The Staff Moderator in Charge of this Section to choose whether or not he find’s posts appropriate and deal with spam or rule breaking accordingly.
_
Again, Axel – I’m trying to do you a Favor, I’m sticking up for you and enforcing our regulations at the same time… I’m sure once you read the rules and Regulations of Flexbeta you will understand a little better…

Flexbeta Forum Rules

Sorry.

well said matt , thank you. Any other problems then please take it up with myself or outlandishtrendz.

I seem to remember a long running anti-competive court case brought by several American states against Microsoft for the whole " bundling of IE with Windows" thing.

And what is the European Parliment doing? Precisely the same thing. For very similar, if not precisely the same reasons.

Democracy and rule of law (however ridicuolous it may get from time to time), is not the sole stamping ground of the ole US of A. The afformentioned action brought against Microsoft, settled though it may have been, applies to the US only.

The European powers that be obviously decided that something similar was required to fully substantiate situation for Europe. Pure and simple.

If anyone really wanted to remove IE from Windows (98, 2K, XP) there is software out there that will do it.

Mind, the only problem with it, is it is not really for Joe Average User.

If MS is really to remove IE from Windows, they seriously need to rewrite the code as IE is fully integerated in the OS.

funny if windows came with FireFox not IE

it would

Yea but that would be stupid, they will come out with the security of FF in IE7

and evil sin enough 1 or 2 word posts lol

Yeah exactly what I was gonna say.

lol gotta love 2 word posts
btw nlite isn't really off topic, its right on topic
since it allows you to remove IE and thats what this thread is about

uh ok fine

ha Don't push your luck.

uh ok